EP 198 – Anthony Kang – Founder and CEO at BitFans – When Artists Start to Sell Their Albums as NFTs

• Starting out in sales and marketing and investment before getting into tech
• Sales and psychology
• Fear over foundational change
• The transitions from Web 1, to Web 2 and Web 3
• Asset ownership and the role of tokenization
• The decentralization of social media
• How BitFans helps creators mint NFTs and build DAOs
• Metaverse interoperability
• The first BitFan cohort

1. There’s Just Good Talent Everywhere
2. A Diversified Team Scattered All Around the World
3. The Rocky Road to Achieving Dominance
4. If Blockchain Was the Government of the Earth
5. Without Data, They’re In Big Trouble

Read the best-effort transcript below (This technology is still not as good as they say it is…):

Michael Waitze 0:17
Hi, this is Michael Waitze. And welcome back to the Asia Tech Podcast. Today we are joined by Anthony Kang, the founder and CEO of BitFans, this should be a good one. Anthony, thank you so much for coming on the show. How are you doing today?

Anthony Kang 0:32
Doing very well, Michael, I really appreciate the invite. And looking forward to having a great chat with you.

Michael Waitze 0:36
It is completely my pleasure. Where are you right now, by the way?

Anthony Kang 0:40
So I’m based out of Sydney, Australia. This is where we’re building the company out of but we do have staff all around the world.

Michael Waitze 0:47
Do you really?

Anthony Kang 0:48
Indeed, yes, I believe that this globalized world that we’re heading in, there’s just good talent everywhere. And I feel it’s no longer limited just to where we’re no station, which city we’re in. I think if you look at different people’s portfolios, and you sort of see what they’ve done, doesn’t matter what nationality they are, what religion they if they’ve got the skills, and that’s what I look for. So you know, I’m very lucky to have a diversified team scattered across the world.

Michael Waitze 1:12
Yeah, and I want to get your background in a second. But I think as we go forward in this conversation, I really want to talk about this philosophy of like a world. I don’t want to say without borders, because it sounds a bit trite. But just like a world that gets organized around interests as a world as as opposed to a world that gets organized around physical borders. So just keep that in mind. Right? We can talk about that in the context of the metaverse in a bit. But before we do that, I want to get a bit of your background just so people can have some context.

Anthony Kang 1:40
Absolutely. So my background, Michael is a little bit varied. I’ve always been somebody who has chased what I believe to be fun projects, projects, where they wanted to be fast paced, exciting. And so I was going to have an opportunity to learn a lot of things along the way. So my career actually started off within the world of sales and marketing. Basically, my mentality when I was younger was if you learn how to sell, basically, in a way that the art of presenting and persuasion and getting deals done, it’d be a great foundational skill that will just continue to serve me, you know, for the rest of my life. So I spent three and a half years working in sales and marketing roles. And then that transitioned into working in the HR industry where I took a role as being a headhunter and recruiter, specifically within the IT world. So I was recruiting people who were, you know, software, architects, software developers, and then eventually, they were, you know, artificial intelligence. People spent five years in that that world, then I spent a year overseas, traveling throughout Asia, working on some e commerce type projects. And I eventually transitioned into the finance industry, your old game, Michael, basically. So I got an opportunity to join a investment funds. And the group we’re looking at acquiring aged care facilities, old elderly care facilities around Australia. So it’s like an m&a m&a fund. So I got involved in that. And I got a way in through just networks, my networks, I had some people who were senior investment bankers and just met a couple of people. And they invited me on to the project to basically drive the deal origination. So that was fun. Smith, a couple of years in that world, we looked at deals all around Australia, is just a lot of fun, you know, just going to aged care facilities traveling around looking at deals, and now that funds has become one of the largest aged care groups in Australia. We’ve got, you know, five portfolio locations, over 500 beds, so that business is doing well. And then finally, I transitioned into the tech world where one of the board members of that project was related to a tech company that focused on doing organizational cultural transformation at the enterprise level. So working with organizations that had 1000s of staff. So we were working with C suite to deploy culture transformation. And that was good fun.

Michael Waitze 4:07
What does that mean culture transformation? And how do you think that happens? And I guess the other thing that’s interesting to me is, don’t you think that sort of the sales experience that you had and the HR experience that you had kind of fed into the culture of transformation, right, like, how does this work, you walk into a C suite, what are you trying to sell to them and tell them about how you can trance form their culture?

Anthony Kang 4:29
Yeah, I understand. So the culture of transformation thing, I feel people tend to fall into two camps or that one camp is it’s not about culture, it’s all about strategy, operational management, stuff like that. Then the other camp, the school of thought is people who do believe

Michael Waitze 4:44
that for breakfast kind of thing good old Peter Drucker Yeah, exactly

Anthony Kang 4:48
right. The you know, the king management consultant, if you will. So every group has a different methodology, like when they try to enact culture change at the organizational level. Our model was designed by a psychologist So registered Psych. And she came to learn over the years that the way you drive actual behavioral changes in organization is you need to unite the people against obviously a common mission. But the way you practically execute that is you put together basically a set of signature behaviors that the entire organization is following through a top down CEO down to the part time cleaner. And this an example of signature behaviors could be things like, you know, we do what we say we will do, or, you know, we work together achieve together, the system worked in a way where every quarter, the company would do an organizational wide, quick five minute survey, where you would rate yourself and your fellow team members anonymously, on how well we have all been demonstrating those behaviors. So it was quite a unique way of doing it that placed a lot of emphasis on accountability. And it wasn’t like a I’m dobbing. on you, you’re dobbing on me type of system, the sort of whole point of it was in between the surveys that we would run, we would get together as a group and make sure that we’re having open discussion, are we performing together as a team? What is Anthony doing more than I could do better for the team? So it’s a very collaborative, open discussion based system. And it really works. The business achieved significant results, both in terms of money saving, and you know, NPs improvements and things like that across some big organizations across Australia.

Michael Waitze 6:25
Yeah, I mean, I like to say, I say what I do, and I do what I say, right, so I’m telling you, I’m open, I’m transparent, I’m going to tell you exactly what I’m going to do. And then I’m going to do exactly what I said I was going to do both sides that are actually really, really important to me. And I think that as technological change, comes this idea of changing people’s culture, but also changing their mindset is also super important. Right? Because, as with any kind of foundational change, people get scared. Yeah, and you’ve got to convince them in a way, maybe with your behavior, maybe by changing their behavior, but also by changing their mindset that this new thing that they’re gonna have to deal with, is just going to be around whether they like it or not. Is that fair? Yeah, great. I think we’re just about at the tipping point on one of these things. And I think, you know, we can we mentioned the metaverse earlier. But I think we should talk about this in the context of the development of the web at scale, right. And maybe you can back up a little bit from your perspective. You and I are like 20 something years apart, right? So we’ve seen different things and experienced different things. But maybe you can tell me what you think web one was web two, and then get to web three. And tell me how you think that that’s different from what we’ve already seen, just for the context?

Anthony Kang 7:39
Sure. So if I could define it as web one was just the early stages of the internet, we’re talking just very basic websites with very basic functionality, basically read read, the ability to read basically information or websites that quickly evolved into web to where, which is what the phase we’re in now, where you have the ability to read and write just simply meaning that the functionality of the different websites and apps that we use it a lot more advanced platforms like Facebook, or other social media apps that we use, or the videos we watch on YouTube, all of these things are advancements from web one to web two, where we can now read and write information and process much more complex data. Web three is really where I believe we’re going. And this the big paradigm shift, Michael, is where you have all this advanced functionality, but you’re actually able to now allow the users of these different online products and services to also become owners of the platform. And there needs to be a mechanism that allows you to actually have a stake of ownership. And that stake of ownership, that technology is through tokenization, basically. So for example, Facebook, if they were to become a web three company, they could release something called the Facebook token, which they could give out to their users for just using the platform. Or they could also provide the users the ability to buy the Facebook token in different places online. So when, as a user, we have the ability to use the platforms that we’ll be using anyway. But we also have now a sense of ownership, a stake of ownership in the platform. This is where now the symbiotic symbiotic relationship exists, where we’re no longer just a product, but we’re a user of the product, as well as an owner.

Michael Waitze 9:26
Do you think companies like Facebook, which will try as a big platform company to dominate the coming Metaverse and web three will fail and just kind of become the, I don’t know the digital computer. You’ve probably never even heard of digital but do the digital computer of the web three age where at some point because people don’t know there’s no self sovereign data ownership on Facebook, and that’s how they make all their money. I mean, to be fair, most of the money gets made by selling you as a product to an advertiser. That’s it full stop, right? But because I don’t On on any of my own data that’s on Facebook, there’s no self sovereign data ownership, which the blockchain or distributed ledger technology can provide. Won’t somebody just build a social network that then gives away ownership so that people can then participate in the same way that there are played out earn games? There will be, I don’t know, join to earn social media companies. That make sense.

Anthony Kang 10:22
Yes. And I feel that’s exactly what’s what’s going to happen Microsoft, a big behemoth like Facebook, they have too many legacy frameworks in place, it’s not, it’s going to be very difficult for Facebook to convince their shareholders that they’re now giving away ownership in the company to the users of the platform, I feel their business model is too locked in. And they’re too big to change this at some point. So at this point, so I feel the companies that are trying to create what they call the so the centralized social media, there are a couple of outfits out there who are trying to build the solutions. Their solutions are going to become more prevalent, I feel in time, but they are dealing with the challenge of trying to compete with these multi 100 billion dollar or trillion dollar organizations and all the budgets, they have all the m&a that they do everything, all the power that they bring behind them. So the challenge of what we alluded to earlier of changing user behavior, you know, people’s behavior is what these are the challenges that they’re going to deal with. But I believe over time, with enough time and with enough resources, some of them will probably be able to pull this off. Yeah, I

Michael Waitze 11:31
think they definitely will. That’s my opinion. And I wouldn’t be surprised. I mean, look, MySpace is gone, you can talk about a ton of companies that were hedge ammonius. I mean, IBM is another great example of this, right? Where people don’t even talk about them anymore. They don’t make products you use. They don’t make computers that you use mainframes are still out there and their services business. I don’t know. Like I really don’t know. So for me, a company like Facebook is going to go away, maybe not. But is it going to dominate the next phase of computing? I honestly don’t think so I think you’re more likely to see big companies like Animoca brands and people that are creating stuff like the sandbox go out there and dominate because people are going to exist in a way and I’ve had this discussion before where we won’t talk about virtual reality. We won’t talk about augmented reality. And we won’t talk about the metaverse, we’ll just talk about the universe in reality. Does that make sense?

Anthony Kang 12:21
It does, and I agree with your overall thesis, Michael, I feel we’ll see what Mark Zuckerberg I feel is what he’s trying to do. That’s quite smart. He’s he’s trying to news Jack the whole Metaverse thing you know, when he came out with that video saying facials that rebrand to the better. He is trying to take over that whole narrative and establish Facebook has the authority. And there’s been a lot of pushback in the web through community saying Facebook does not have a good track record of protecting user data rights and, and taking privacy for granted things like that. So I feel Zacks is doing what he can to maintain that relevancy, I think they know what’s coming. So when we start seeing these social media battles play out, it’s just going to be interesting to see. But I just I guess want to emphasize that I don’t think these decentralization platforms are going to have an easy road to achieving that dominance. Because with all that firepower that Facebook brings, they’re going to put up a good fight. So you just got to be interesting to see how the battle works. But I do believe that web three companies will win out in the end.

Michael Waitze 13:20
So I think there’s a paradigm change that’s gonna go on here. And I really want your opinion on this. The walled garden, right? That is Facebook is what allows them to make most of their money. What they don’t want is interoperability. But, and I think the gaming experience now is the best example of this. It always starts with gaming, I don’t want to talk about the other places where it starts, but it always really starts with gaming. And what an NF t a non fungible token has done for gaming. It’s got a whole bunch of things, but interoperability portability, right? And the idea that then I can take it from one place to another place the same way I can take my luggage from one hotel to another hotel, means that until Facebook, which they’re never going to do allows you to take your data from Facebook, into any other social media platform, they’re going to die. Because once people start having a data portability, it’s over. No.

Anthony Kang 14:15
Agreed, agreed the data is Facebook’s mode. That is what they have. That’s it. That’s their business without that they’re in deep trouble. So I think what they’re probably going to try to do is try to keep all of their data within this big grand Metaverse that they’re going to create. And they are trying to some of the tricks that they’re pulling out Michael quite interesting. They’re releasing this thing where they’re allowing creators to basically offer subscription services similar to a Patreon for people who want to support the Creators community. So so it really depends because I do feel humans are probably inherently lazy. So if people can stick with the status quo, then they probably will. So Facebook will put up a good fight. But I would like to believe that the interoperability fair The fact where if we spend money cleaning up our avatars or digital avatars and we put you know, we wear the nice clothes and put on the nice hats and sunglasses. We want to be able to take this character and use it across all the future Nativists of the world in a Microsoft will probably create a metaverse. Different gaming companies will continue to create Metaverse as in Facebook, most of us. In fact, even my home country Korea, the city of Seoul, were the first City Metropolitan major city to announce that they were going to create their own metaverse. So there’s going to be all these meta versus a Facebook is not going to allow us to take our characters into their Metaverse, then it’s going to be a big, big form of friction on the pot. Yeah, I

Michael Waitze 15:38
mean, I’m gonna say something really controversial. But Facebook runs the risk of becoming the North Korea of Metaverse is right, you can’t get in and you can’t take anything out. And that’s bad for the population of North Korea the same way it’ll be bad for the population of Facebook, I want to talk about the use of NF TS from a community standpoint, right? In other words, okay, what we see now in the NFT market is all this hype around, you know, somebody Banksy did this, but you know, they create these NF T’s they sell for $69 million, big deal. But it’s almost like in a world where there were no houses beforehand. And then somebody builds a house and the richest person says, I need a house because it’s better shelter than living in a cave. But now houses don’t trade for 69 million bucks, you know, they trade for like a million or 750,000, because they’re just normal and FTAs will be the same way. The reality is that an NFT is really not so much a technological innovation. It’s more like a legal fruit framework change is unfair. And if it is, that means that it’s just going to be the biggest problem with web 2.0, from a transactional standpoint was that there was no way to trust that that transaction was actually going to take place. But the NFT now makes it because it exists on a distributed ledger technology, immutable, that actually gives the power to you and me, as opposed to giving it just to Amazon or to Facebook. Is that fair?

Anthony Kang 16:59
I agree with that. Yes. And I feel there’s two important streams with what you said there, Michael, The first was around the regulatory repercussions of these NFT technology coming into place. And also the different types of functionality that people can use NF TS for? Because like you said, at the moment, a lot of people attribute NF Ts to digital artwork, digital collectibles, and we hear the good old Well, why can’t we just right click and save. And that’s a good thing that you hate, why can’t I just copy it, and then I have this, I it’s mine as well. But what people miss when they say that is, yeah, you have a copy of the NFT. But you don’t have the proof that you own the actual original version or the file. So I feel NFT is right now being artwork, we’re going to start from this, you’re seeing a lot more of the other practical use cases that an interface can bring, such as in the music industry, for example, when artists and musicians start to release their albums as NF Ts, and they can sell their album to their community members who can provide that funding to get the albums off the ground, then that is going to be a major use case because all the future royalties or the future revenue that these these record companies generate could be split to the NFT holders. Another big use case for entertainers, can

Michael Waitze 18:14
I back up for a second? Yes, there’s precedent for this. And again, you may be too young to remember this. But David Bowie actually wrote a bond, I think it was a $70 million bond that was tied to the revenues for his music catalog. And the idea was, if you own the bond, I’m going to pay you a coupon on that bond that’s associated with the revenues of my existing albums and anything that I produce after that, and it was a way for him to get $70 million right away. And then either use that $70 million to invest in other things and pay the bond or give the return to the music catalog, which was very popular, and then pay it out. There’s no difference between that. The only thing is that now it’s digital. And I want to go back to this idea. We can just copy and paste it or cut and paste it right. Sure. The same way I can take a picture of your house like I can walk by your your mom and dad’s house and take a picture of it. I don’t own it, though. They have a deed. And that deed is registered with the local office that manages that stuff. And that oath of office gets its power from the government. Will the NFT just disintermediate so all of that and says here’s the digital deed which is immutable, because it sits on a blockchain which has proof of scope, proof of contract, whatever it is, and that is the ownership and you can cut it and paste it and copy and take pictures of it all you want, but you don’t own it. Yeah,

Anthony Kang 19:37
sure. Sure. Great. And I feel the power of the blockchain is because it’s open and accessible to all all around the world. It’s almost like the blockchain and there are obviously various layer one blockchain that exists but it’s almost like the blockchain is this global database. So if the blockchain was a government of Earth, we could all see the deeds for that. House the NFT is all on this one blockchain that’s completely open, unchangeable, stashing mutable. And this This is really the that transparency is a big factor of what the blockchain brings.

Michael Waitze 20:12
Yeah, absolutely. So tell me how this works in the context of big fans as a guy who spends every day and every night creating unbelievable content. How would I use big fans? Or how would you explain it to somebody who doesn’t know what it is?

Anthony Kang 20:25
Sure. So, BitFans, we’re a platform that’s going to help influencers and creators basically meet their own community tokens.

Michael Waitze 20:35
So how does that what does what does minting mean for people that don’t understand?

Anthony Kang 20:39
minting just means creating essentially, it’s a crypto jargon word, where you basically create a record on the blockchain, you know, via using a smart contract, where we’re creating that record on the blockchain. So minting could be synonymous with the word create, where we are creating tokens, their own branded community tokens for them, which are fungible, which just means that where if Michael, you had a community token, one Michael token, if it’s worth $1, then if Anthony buys some Michael tokens from the other side of the world, then he’s buying the same Michael tokens for $1. So they’re all the same. Similar to dot, you know, the US dollar, for example, one US dollar in Argentina, I can have a US dollar note in Australia, they’re still it’s still worth one US dollar. So they’re all the same. Whereas NF Ts, which I need to make the distinction here are all unique. So if there’s a set of 10,000, NF T’s, for example, each one in the 10,000 collection is a unique token, whereas the community tokens, they’re all the same.

Michael Waitze 21:43
Yeah. I mean, that’s the difference between fungible and non fungible.

Anthony Kang 21:47
Absolutely, by definition, yes.

Michael Waitze 21:49
So why don’t I use bit fans to issue to mint like, a million tokens for Michael Waitze media? And then just get them out there into the universe and see what happens?

Anthony Kang 22:00
You absolutely can and part of what we’re doing is we actually have a launchpad program. So saving a launch pad or create a launchpad program, go ahead, because because all the crypto is starting to hit the mainstream, I still feel there are a lot of technical and just general crypto understanding roadblocks that a lot of influences creators may have. So everything from like, you know, how do I set up a cryptocurrency wallet? For example? You know, how do I mint this token? How do I list the token online so that people can actually come in buy and trade these tokens? How do I create a dowel? How do I set up a discord chat community where I can round up all of my token holders to come in, you know, hanging out with Michael virtually in your, in your example, hanging out with each other probably like minded people, if they’re listening to your podcast, they share similar interests, which is why they’re listening to us over others. And then how do you manage your community on Discord, which requires a lot of tools, bots, things like that. So the launch pad provides all of that service, we basically hold the hand of our creators from from start to the end, from token minting, to their creation and ongoing community management. So we’re providing this service. And we’re actually going to be launching our first season of creators, which is going to be a first mini season, an intimate group around five, six creators, and we’re actually going to start launching that process within the next few weeks.

Michael Waitze 23:26
And why is the DAO necessary? And you may want to define again, DAO for people that don’t know what it means.

Anthony Kang 23:32
Sure. So a DAO is just this, there are different definitions of what a DAO is. But the way I view it is it’s just a, an a space where you can round up your community, and how much control and influence you give them. It’s really up to the creator of the DAO. So certain DAOs provide all of the voting power and governance to the token holders, and that would fit more of the traditional definition of what a job is. So if we buy Michael Waitze Media’s tokens, and let’s just say you have a million tokens that existed Anthony, I buy 100,000 of them, so I own 10% of your tokens, then if we run a DAO in a very traditional format, whenever my call you post a poll on a proposal, or what should I do next with my band, for example, I would have the voting power of 10% of that vote for your proposal.

Michael Waitze 24:25
If that’s the way it was set up. How is this different than an Ico that took place in like 2017 or 2016?

Anthony Kang 24:32
The art of selling the token you mean? Yeah. So, ICOs were generally linked towards different types of crypto startup projects, whereas community tokens are designed for people who already have an existing follower base and an audience. And they’re offering these tokens available to them. Because the sort of premise is, why don’t you guys basically have almost like a stake in my community in my brand, and why don’t we work together through the tokens? unite us in the middle to try grow this brand together. And that way if we succeed with that, then we all benefit. Cut it.

Michael Waitze 25:07
And is Do you think there’s a path for people to create their own? metaverse? Right? So you said Microsoft might do it sold it as a city. Facebook is probably going to try to do it. We know the sandbox did it through Animoca bread, like all these things are happening. Is there a way for some individual creator to create their own version of the metaverse, which is then you know, it has NF T’s in it, but it’s also interoperable. So it can connect to other meta verses in the same way that you know, New York Connects to Tokyo kind of thing.

Anthony Kang 25:38
What I love about what you just said like was because we’re still so early in this with this whole, there exists the option for a lot of people to create the world’s first Dow in many different categories and niches. And I feel the case study you brought up of why don’t why doesn’t somebody created Dow where the objective of the Dow is to create a Metaverse for their Dow so then they could that’s the vision for their Dow and they could issue their tokens and sell their tokens and bring people in who want to support that vision. And they can invest in a way raise funds by selling their community because they don’t use those funds to start building out the metaverse. So it’s absolutely and entirely possible.

Michael Waitze 26:18
Got it. And so what did you say? So you’re at the stage now where you’re just about to launch, this is the entire tech platform already built out.

Anthony Kang 26:26
So the tech platform 80% of it is done. So we have the remaining tech platform that’s going to come out within the next one and a half, two months or so. But we have the features that we need in order to actually launch our first big fans created Launchpad season group of influencers, season one cohort one. So we are going to launch that within the next few weeks. And there’s going to be once again an intimate group of five, six creators, we’re going to do basically everything from minting the token for them. We’re going to set up the Dallas for them. We’re going to help them get their tokens listed online so people can come in and buy and trade the tokens. And also as they start promoting their tokens to the community. We are going to have team members on the big fan side in a content editors, producers and so forth to help them get their message out to their existing follower base.

Michael Waitze 27:12
Got it? I talked earlier about this. I have this philosophical view that I have on the metaverse, right. And I think the example that you gave a soul did I get this right? So the capital city, right, sorry that Seoul in South Korea has said we’re going to create a Metaverse already has. But again, it’s still kind of related to a physical boundary. Because it’s about that city. And we can talk about the significance of that. I still think it’s a great idea. But because the metaverse is this infinite space, it’s not defined by the same way cities have been defined by rivers, mountains, oceans, you know, physical borders that literally stopped. They’re like, well, we can’t go any further than that. So this is where our city ends kind of thing, right? But in the metaverse, I can just make up a city. I can call it like Michael Ville, like, let’s not say like Stalingrad, but you understand the point? Sure. So why wouldn’t we do that? And gather people, like I said, because the people that live in Seoul are mostly Korean the same way that people that live in Tokyo are mostly Japanese and the people that live in Moscow are mostly Russian. But that’s just a happenstance of history. Right? In other words, your you were born in Korea, because your parents are probably born in Korea, because their parents words just you know, it’s an accident of history, the same way that I was born in California. And my family wasn’t from originally California. But why we have people are going to organize around interests, things that they care about whether it’s gaming, or music or movies or whatever. Why can’t we just create non city related metal horses and just create interest related ones?

Anthony Kang 28:44
And this, in my opinion, Michael, the answer is you absolutely can. And what I love about the democratized nature of web three applications and products is if the city of Seoul does a good job at creating enough incentives to attract the web free citizens of the world into the metaverse, then fair play to them. It’s completely democratized. So we have the choice. And due to the interoperable nature, it’s fun to hang out in the city of Seoul Metaverse, and we’d like to go visit some virtual bars here and hang out with some friends there. So be it. But if there are other completely non real world, silly like equivalent, Metaverse, that getting built by EA with decentraland, sandbox and so forth, then and it’s more fun to hang out there, then that’s where the people will go. So I just love the inner sense. It’s just the raw nature of this. We’re just gonna let people vote. People can sort of vote with their own feet and their time as to which Metaverse they want to hang out in.

Michael Waitze 29:40
So will the tokens because they’re their software basically, and they’re programmable. Will they generally have benefits associated with them? Right. So if we do the Michael Waitze media token, you know, is there like free ice cream involved? Like is the token work to get people benefits? That’s a joke. You understand what I mean?

Anthony Kang 29:57
I know. Yeah. And that’s that’s precisely the main point of the tokens Michael Thank you for bringing this up. Because these tokens are not security tokens, they’re not designed to be sold as shares, you know, you buy this you’re gonna make money tomorrow like it’s that’s not what this is about. So if Michael Waitze Media releases a community token, the premises, we need to attach some benefits and perks, we want to incentivize your members to buy and hold your tokens. So what we are big fans recommend as a minimum is for the people who buy and hold even at least one token, they’re going to get invited to a private discord slash dowel group of yours, where they’re going to be positioned as a token holder within your community to be given that status, they’re going to have more virtual access to you. So they could sort of hang out with you and your DAO and just, you know, if they need to ask for advice and things, they just want to hang out with you more, you provide them as your token or the opportunity to do that. And also, the third thing I mentioned earlier, was they can come together and hang out with like minded individuals, because once again, there’s a reason why we’re all listening to Mike wait media, rather than some other branded podcasts that might be out there. So we connect with you your style to our values probably aligned someone, and we can meet like minded people in network now. So that’s the base layer of utility and the benefits, different influences come from different nations, you know, we have tick tock influencers, Instagram influencers, all from different categories, gaining, you know, modeling, sports, stars, musicians, whatever it might be. So in the case of yourself, Michael, you might be able to put around utilities such as once a year, I am going to host an in real life event, just for my token audit committee, to say thank you to bring you guys all together in Bangkok, in Japan, where we might be in Australia, and I’m going to throw a big party for you guys, we’re going to all hang out whenever blast. That could be one of the perks of why people would want to buy and hold each token. Another thing you could do is you could start releasing exclusive merchandise, you know, one of a kind side products from Michael himself, where if we’re part of your community, and we stick around, we can get like a T shirt, we can get like a mug, whatever you think your community members will appreciate the creativity you can attach this is really dependent on what you think your community will, will appreciate about you the most.

Michael Waitze 32:11
Got it. So the last thing I’ll ask you before I go is if I’m a creator, and I want to get in touch with you, I want to learn more about the big fans platform and maybe think about minting my own tokens creating my own discord and participating in this. How do I get in touch with you?

Anthony Kang 32:27
Sure. So the best way to get in contact with us is we actually have a discord for big fans down. And within that, yeah, so you know, we’re living which we’re living true to what we’re getting into, you know, we’ve got to do what we say we want to do. So we have a discord group, the bit fans down. And within that there’s a channel where it’s for the influencers. And if anybody’s interested in applying for the next season, season two that we’re going to do for the beat fans creative Launchpad. Please feel free to submit ahead, we’ll view your application and if sounds good, then we’ll reach out to you and we can go from there.

Michael Waitze 32:59
Perfect. Maybe you’ll give me a link to where people can click and then find out how they can get in touch with you.

Anthony Kang 33:05
We’d love to share that. Thanks for that, Michael.

Michael Waitze 33:06
Okay, Anthony. Thank you so much. Anthony Kang, the founder and the CEO of good friends. That was really great, man. Thank you for your time.

Anthony Kang 33:13
Appreciate it. Thank you