EP 306 – Pablo Riveros – Manabu.dev – The Passion Was Always There

by | Dec 13, 2023

The Asia Tech Podcast welcomed ⁠Pablo Riveros⁠, the founder of ⁠Manabu.dev⁠ an innovative platform utilizing AI and machine learning to simplify sustainability and ESG ​reporting for businesses.

Some of the topics that Pablo discussed in detail:

  • How entrepreneurs benefit from a global perspective
  • The importance of building global communities
  • The necessity to build sustainability into the core of one’s business
  • Harnessing the power of data and technology to solve real-world problem
  • Entrepreneurs need to be flexible and adaptable

Some other titles we considered for this episode, but ultimately rejected:

  1. From Digital Nomad to Tech Innovator
  2. Tech, Travel, and Transformation
  3. Blending Tech, Sustainability, and Building Communities and Startups
  4. Sustainability in Tech: Helping Companies Understand Their Data
  5. Building ESG Frameworks With Visual Data
Read the best-effort transcript

Read the best-effort transcript below (This technology is still not as good as they say it is…):

Michael Waitze 0:05
Let’s do it. Hi, this is Michael Waitze and welcome back to the Asia Tech Podcast. Pablo Riveros, the founder of Manabu.dev is with us today. Pablo, thank you so much for coming on the show you sound great. The room you’re in looks amazing. How are you by the way?

Pablo Riveros 0:22
Very good. Thank you so much Michael. I’m very happy to be here.

Michael Waitze 0:27
It is my complete pleasure. Look, let’s give the listeners a little bit of your background just for some context.

Pablo Riveros 0:34
Yes, sure. Well, I’m originally from Chile. I born in Chile. Then, in my 20s, I moved to Australia. I live in Australia for around 15 years. I opened my first community digital nomad community in Australia when I was in my 20s. And then during that time, I also moved back moved to the Netherlands. So I live in the Netherlands for a year, back to Australia, back to Chile. And my last time it was, it was in Australia, working at the University of Queensland, was one of the second largest research university in Australia. And during that time, and I was really want to do something new. And then I met my beautiful wife she’s from from Fukuoka from Japan. And then I decided to go and either decide to move to to Japan as an open my own startup.

Michael Waitze 1:26
My wife is also Japanese, just so you know. So you’ve been there. Good for you. Good for you. And for all, by the way, a beautiful city. Can I do this? You said you built a digital community when you were in Australia? What is the importance? Like why did you think that was an important thing to do? What’s the importance of communities in general? Because I think it’s a cool idea.

Pablo Riveros 1:47
Yes, I guess I started my community a years ago, when I was I was living actually in, in Cairns in the north north of Australia, Queensland. And I guess, communities is part of how when I landed Japan, in Australia, I didn’t have too many people connecting with them or find a job opportunity. So the community in the beginning started as a back pocket community, we help each other we were just five people in the community. We try to share different types of jobs. What insurance do you have in your gut when I go to the doctor, what you can do and so on. So start building this community. And then it was just about helping each other. And then after that it started growing. And now after the pandemic, I guess we got a peak in our communities. Now we have around 10,000 global members. I have we have different communities and social media we met basically, mostly we use Facebook, we have a communities in Karis inside gencos In Taiwan, Taipei and also build a community in Fukuoka as well. So in Fukuoka, we are around roughly around 500 members as well. So I think that’s the main reason in the beginning to help each other and find opportunities for many people.

Michael Waitze 3:02
I think over time, right? If you build a community around a common interest, even if there’s no sort of short term, like use for it, that over time, the support and the benefit that you can get from it, not just for you, but for the entire community can actually end up being really powerful. Yeah,

Pablo Riveros 3:17
absolutely. You’re right. I think the support that you can get each other from other people and you find great connections. There. Networking is the key in communities and I find people that are funded their funders now. People work in the government, and it’s a great it’s a really beautiful value as a society as well, because we think we need to think more clever collective than individual so

Michael Waitze 3:43
I could not agree with you more. Have you ever had a job at a big company?

Pablo Riveros 3:48
My biggest job I guess was I finished my high school and I went to the army. I went to the airforce. So I spent 10 years working at the Air Force. Did you realize I was working? Yes, it’s 10 years. I think I guess that was one of the biggest job. Yeah, I was just in that in that HR area tech, part of the effort. I was known to the field. So it was really excited to learn a lot about the technical part, but also part of their craft. But then yeah, I guess that’s one of my biggest one. And then I quit and then I moved to Australia. So at the second biggest me was working at the University of Queensland. That’s one of the, as I say, it’s a very respectful university in Australia.

Michael Waitze 4:31
Yeah. So what prompted you to start your own companies?

Pablo Riveros 4:35
I guess the passion, I really want to be my own boss. I really want to try to help others and also the opportunity. My first company was when I was 22 years old. I opened my company in Chile. It was a tourist tourist company kayaking, doing kayaking activities in the ocean. And I found an opportunity because there was one only one guy in the ocean During this business, bringing a lot of people pulling the water, I can change the world. There’s no more people doing the same. So, so one of my good friend at that time, and we opened my first company, when I was 23. Talk

Michael Waitze 5:13
to me about what you learned, right? Because the kayak company, not necessarily a tech company, per se, but talk to me about what you learned about just at particularly at that age, the organization’s dedication, the discipline and stuff like that, just to build something from scratch and actually have it to work and earn you enough money to live. Do you don’t I mean, yes,

Pablo Riveros 5:34
it was my, my, my second kind of income, because my main job was Air Force, right. So you can imagine, during the weekends, I started running my business, even in the summer. So I didn’t have a holiday for three, three years, actually, I was focusing my in my business. And I guess, as you said, the discipline, woke up early in the morning with the kayaks in the ocean, set up a tent. And also, I learned a lot about marketing strategies. In fact, during that time, when I was 23, I signed on a punisher with one of the largest phone companies in South America, the name is Claro, claro. We signed that, and I got actually, every single call for free marketing things. I got a t shirt t shirt for my staff, beautiful models to give the flyers to the people on the beach, we got a lot of VIP events. So I create that kind of marketing things. And I thought at that time was like, Well, what I’m doing when I was 22 years, so it could be big.

Michael Waitze 6:37
How did you get a partnership with one of the biggest phone companies? Right? I mean, how do you find out who the right person is? How did you know who to call? And then in the end of the day, why were they negotiating with a 22 year old to do this? Against

Pablo Riveros 6:49
I guess, because they didn’t, though, at that time to promote their brand in on the beach in the summer. And I think we I came with this idea to bring around just networking, go try to go to as many events as possible, as a owner of our own company. And then during that event, I met the person, the right person in the right place, and we connect and they say, you know, I have a business independent bid. We like to support us as a marketing. And they said, Yeah, why not? And near this is how I started my first entrepreneurial journey.

Michael Waitze 7:25
I love it. I think everybody should run their own business from when they’re like 15 years old, I really do it. Because I think it’s going to change the way the world works. I don’t think anybody should ever have like a full time job job. I think it’s so much better to do it the way you’ve done it. If you’re building a business, that is beach focused, right? There’s some incentive for you, I would think to keep the beach clean, if that makes sense, right? You want it to be this sort of a full, this beautiful experience, right? But when you’re done, you want to make it look like you were never there. You know what I mean? Like you do the kayaking, you do all that stuff, you have the flyers, you’re running around the beach, and when you leave, you want to have a kind of look like oh my God, nobody did anything here today except enjoy themselves and they went home. Can you talk about how you approach sustainability? And why that’s important to you? Yeah,

Pablo Riveros 8:12
and you are completely right. Because during that time, when I was in my 20s, we create this kind of cleaning up the campaign of cleaning the beach, you know, with friends, and we also never gave her a plastic bag. And I’m talking about 2020 years ago, sustainability or environmental, it was No, actually I key topics. We always give a paper package to the people. So we never never give you any plastic back. So we had that’s kind of conscious at that time. But then, living in Australia after there a few years later, I have the opportunity to join environmental environmental there. And it was voluntary, I really have a strong passion for sustainability. And I was connecting different opportunities back in Chile, then in Australia. And then now after a long time after I opened my own company in Japan. So the passion was always there.

Michael Waitze 9:09
Let’s just go back to the beach experience, right? Because I think it’s indicative of this as as a larger scale. But how do you convince others who you see maybe doing business on the beach or you see doing businesses in sort of nature, that doing it in a sustainable way is better than doing it in non sustainable way? Like I think it’s pretty prescient for a 20 year old or a 22 year old to say, You know what, we’re not going to give out any plastic bags, we’ll just do paper, they’re more biodegradable. And even if somebody drops it on the beach, it’s easier to pick up and stuff and it wouldn’t harm any any of the wildlife that’s there, right? But you may see other people doing something differently. How do you encourage them to kind of come over to your side and think yeah, that’s the right way to do it.

Pablo Riveros 9:48
I think that what we did very well was to show up to be very open, transparent, and that’s with the Tarot campaigns at a time on Facebook. Let’s do He’s kind of a collecting rubbish on the beach, cleaning the beach and all these things. And another thing it was our competitors for that time. It was another company, they do exactly the same like us. And they still see us. We’ve got a new branding, marketing and the guys start changing actually their behavior because in the beginning, they didn’t care. Right. But that’s the truth. But when started, saw a few bunch of young guys doing things differently. He started, copiers may become a very strong competitor for a few years. I

Michael Waitze 10:30
love it. So I just love that. I love it. And so talk to me about how you ended up in Japan. I mean, obviously, you met somebody presuming you met your wife in Australia. In Australia. Yeah. Okay. Then you decided to go back with her to achieve from Kyushu. Yes,

Pablo Riveros 10:44
that’s correct. Yes. She’s from Kyushu that is oil, I guess. Yes, absolutely. I guess for me myself. Because I was in Australia. And I was an early age when I was young. I really liked Japan, because we’ve got so many influence from animes, and so on, when I was in Australia had the opportunity to visit did a solo trip for a month from Kansai Osaka, up to Carlos Shima. And I decided to do this by myself. I spent almost a month traveling north by bus going about 20 years ago, when at that time, the Google map was all in Kanji. So it was such a difficult to navigate industry in Japan. There is there was a very rare to see many foreigners at that time. And I went to Brian down to Kashima that was the only the 14th year I think it was just the passion to explore something new. And Japan you know, it’s a fascinating country. That bring me to to hear.

Michael Waitze 11:45
It’s so amazing. I rode my bicycle once from Ito. This is in the EZ Peninsula all the way to Shimoda. Wow, this was in 19. I can’t even says this was in 1990. Yeah, in 1990 or 1991. And you’re right when we showed up to rent a hotel, they were just like, Who are you guys? What are you doing here? Right. And I spoke Japanese. So it was okay to go into the hotel and kind of ask questions. But the treatment that we got was kind of amazing. We may as well have been aliens. Like it was so amazing to watch. But you’re right. It was super challenging. Back then. There was no Google Maps. There were no maps, and we just like rode in the direction. We thought we were supposed to go. But it was a blast. It was just that’s

Pablo Riveros 12:31
how I made it went. I was really lonely, lonely planet book. Yeah. They had their first problem with that and so heavy. It was the only way at that time. So

Michael Waitze 12:41
oh my god, I can tell you so many Lonely Planet stories. I really could. In Korea, in Vietnam, like we use Lonely Planet in Indonesia. Everywhere we went. It was the only way to get around back then. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Wow. Super cool. So talk to me about Manabu. What is Manabu? I mean, I know what it means Manabi. Maybe you want to explain to people what that word means. And then exactly what it is

Pablo Riveros 13:02
maybe I guess my job is is not so good like you but Manabu. It means learn or educate. And basically Manabu it’s a solution. So we started our building since last year. And what we do is basically we simplify, we help companies to simplify the ESG and sustainability report, the complexity of ESG and non SuperTrend. Many companies, they have to make an all very large 150 pages of PDF, and then the people nobody understand what it’s exactly what we want to achieve. Sustainability, environmental policies is a very complex topic. And we put all this data in Manabu, that is allowed to companies simplify in a very Visual Insight dashboard, all the data. And then they can easily provide a very simplified report on metrics. With that kind of information, we use AI and machine learning that can provide trends and insights really, really value insights with the percentage that how we can we are consuming certain amount of electricity, and what we can do to reduce that kind of electricity, and so on. So it’s a really powerful solution that we are working on. What is

Michael Waitze 14:21
this reporting? To whom does it go? Why do companies even need to do this? And if they are using Manabu dot Dev? What does it look like to them? What is their experience? Like? Right, so where’s their data coming from? And then what exactly do those insights tell them what to do and how to do I know there’s a lot there, right? But just kind of walk me through the whole process. It’s just want to give you a

Pablo Riveros 14:40
real example of what we’re doing in Taipei. There was a building 20 20/22 floor building didn’t ever manage sustainability and data before. So we what do we do we give to them an ESG framework that basically is a template that they have to fill these with information. With this building, we focus specifically on environmental data, like water consumption, electricity consumption, gas, even paper consumption. As you can imagine, many countries in Asia, they’re still there. Some of them use consume a lot of paper, paper. So we collect this data. And we fill this into our software. And after this, the building manager can see the big picture of the building, in terms of how much water we’re consuming. So we collected data from the last three years 2021 2223. And then we put in our software, and they will see for the first time, not just the random numbers, how much money we’re spending, because we can we can discuss about the environment, the environment, companies, to be honest, they’re really focused about the operational cost, and how we can reduce that operational costs. Without any visual data, it’s super, super hard to understand that. So then we collect this data, and we put in our pro version that can, the company can see the big pictures with all the metrics and easy to understand. And at the same time, we can provide personalized training with this data. So what did we do actually, in fact, after we got all of these, how much electricity they’re using, we did at specific training for this building, because we know exactly how much electricity they were consuming in the last three years, which was the peak of the day they consume, and so on. So we can create this data on a on a very specific training, sustainable Training, we call it sustainability practices as well.

Michael Waitze 16:44
Or the building managers are the people that you’re giving these reports to, are they just like shocked at the data that they have? You know what I mean? So you show them this thing? They’re like, really, we’re using that much water? Who’s who forgot to turn the gas off kind of thing? And does that make? Sorry? Does that make the teaching easier?

Pablo Riveros 17:02
Yes, I guess, I think it’s especially for the building managers, they there, they have so many responsibilities, right. And they don’t have the time to sit and really evaluate this information. But when it’s a practical way, when they can see that? Well, it was a surprise, because we found in September 2022, it was the consumption it was incredibly hot and really, really high. And then versus how much worse it was 1000 300,000 US dollars. So we’re talking a lot about money. And then we got this data that can understand and the good thing is about that it’s it’s we also in my lab, we also build communities, we call it sustainability champions communities. So it’s not only about the data, but also we believe that building communities inside any property, any company, those people are the driving forces of changes. And that’s exactly what we did. We already have six people into that building in time. Okay, and they are, we read incredible worship. And those people provide really incredible feedback, what we can do to reduce the electricity? Because it can you can have the most advanced software, right people out there people three Earth.

Michael Waitze 18:20
Yeah, we didn’t always get it always gets back to what people are going to do with it. Ron, you’re right, you could have the most advanced whiz bang software in the world. And if no one’s paying attention to it, if there aren’t those sustainability champions actually going out and doing it, it doesn’t really matter. Are you? Are you gathering the data with IoT devices? Are you just doing it in a more traditional way?

Pablo Riveros 18:36
Yeah, we have two options. Now we we’ve we put in there, we have, they can put the data in within our software. But now we are in conversations with a few IoT companies in Taipei, that we can collect the data. The thing is IoT, there are 1000s of different activities, different devices, and all collected completely different data. Yeah. And that’s, that’s very complex, that that’s why we are not IoT. We are not a hardware company. We are a software company that we can collect this data and put in our an apple dashboard.

Michael Waitze 19:08
And how do you use AI to analyze that data? And can I just give you an example. But what I do, like, I can take a transcript of this recording, right? And I can run it through AI and do things that I could never do even like a year and a half ago, get insights from it, just figure out all the topics that you discussed all the little nuances and stuff like that. So I know like how powerful it can be. But when it’s dealing with this type of data, you must be getting some really incredible stuff, particularly if you’re comparing it to other buildings and stuff like that, like how do you use AI to do this stuff?

Pablo Riveros 19:42
Absolutely. Because my team is the guy behind all that and we with this number of state of art, we can do a lot of things. So that’s the first thing the beginning of this project. We the company just provide us three months of data and three months of data We can do anything that was. So we’ll start trying to get more from the last three years. Actually, the AI can provide really incredible information. And one of the things is that the predictions the AI and machine learning can, for example, personalize our training sustainability training workshop. So we tailor the training, customized the sustainability workshop, based on the specific needs and challenges of each transition. But this is because we already know the need, we have machine learning and we can do that. And also for empowering decision making. It’s just empower, for example, sustainability champions, to make informed decisions also for the building managers, drive positive changes, sustainability initiatives, and the most the most part of is predictive modeling, you know, with with AI machine learning, we can future resources of forecasting what how much we can predict by modeling how much the future resource is used, is using the building for example, we can get the historical data and facilitating proactive planning as well. You’re

Michael Waitze 21:10
going to love this. Remember when we before we started recording, I shared that link with you about what I did at the Singapore FinTech festival, right? Yes, yeah. So one of the guests there was this woman, one of the guests that sat with us with this woman Sunita Kanaan and if you look at her title, she’s the global lead of AI strategy for Microsoft. So just think about what she knows about AI. And she’s been doing this for 15 years. And, you know, I told you, I’ve been using chatbot, to chat up for a while now, right, this and all this generative AI stuff, particularly in the context of what I do. But I didn’t know that you could do this, you give it an avatar, right? So you say, presume I’m a 17 year old or like a 25 year old, whatever, that I do this, that I think that that I’m from here, and then it builds that persona for you. Right, and this gets back to the personalization that you were talking about for your, for your teachings, you can say, the building manager and her team are these types of people. So now go out and build something for them based on the same information so that I can actually communicate to them in a way that’s effective for them, which may be all the same information, but spoken in a different way or set in a different way. For different cohort of people. Are you doing that as well?

Pablo Riveros 22:19
That’s great. Yeah, actually, that’s it Well, I would never explore the avatar. But I’m very familiar with it with with AI. Bots, for example, because when I was working in Australia, I did a research focusing, and we use a chatbot for as teaching assistants. So we built with my team in Australia and chatbot that they were communicating within with the students, the students didn’t know they were talking with the AI, we’re talking before we bought a chatty btw we were using very, very difficult are in the process, physically very complex things. But now we use, I’ve tried to use the same methodology, the same predictable learning and analysis into my startup. And this is how I try to get analysis of energy, water resources, and so on.

Michael Waitze 23:08
The more you learn about what these individual buildings are doing, obviously, the better service you can give kind of the next building on the margin, right? Because the more information you have just the better at this, you can be so for you, it’s not just additive, its multiplicative, right, because it just keeps growing. I’m curious, I’m curious, if you think about this, let’s just say you’re teaching it to a building manager. So I’m just using them as an example. And you have 10 buildings, that’s great. But if you have 1000 buildings, now you’re talking about a ton of data, but also another opportunity. And I’m curious if you’ve considered this with all the information that you’re figuring out, right, and all the data that you’re gathering, you may actually be able to help them buy insurance for their buildings, because of the information that you have your like, you know, what, you having this much water coming through your building? Water is the biggest danger bigger than fire, actually. And if you know how to disintermediate the problems with that maybe we can offer you some insurance through a sales channel. So that happens is you doing that as well?

Pablo Riveros 24:10
Not yet. But absolutely. We read the data and we did the assumption analysis, right, we can create an breakdowns, breakdowns and trends as well. But that’s that’s exactly where I think, again, the third stage of our development where you want to integrate more solutions into Manabu. And that could be an entire ecosystem. I call it holistic approach. Yeah, in which like no InsurTech or companies like kind of electricity companies can be there, right there into our platform that they can immediately provide service. My brother is he has its own electricity company. And it could be possible that he could be one of the people involved in our platform that they can provide electricity, maintenance, maintenance for any buildings, but this is all possible. within a really large just kill ability and, and holistic, holistic solution.

Michael Waitze 25:07
So I was just drawing something and I’ll show it to you in a second. But I like the way you said platform. Right? So you can call them an alpha dot dev right now we’re learning company, you could even call it an ed tech company. But to me, it always has seemed like a platform company that looks something like this. Right. And you can see that you have different verticals, you can plug into it. This one is like you said, your brother’s maintenance maintenance right away from maintenance, teaching, and then insurance and the more stuff you build into the platform, the more value the platform has. Absolutely. Yeah, I love this as an idea. Sorry, you’re smiling. So tell me what you think about like what other stuff you may do for this going for the future?

Pablo Riveros 25:44
We are not bootstrap startups, we are no, we are not getting a VC fund in Year in and we are okay with that at the moment. And but I guess, in five years, we believe that it’s going to be a huge impact of the environment companies that really master percent the transparency of the ESG data, and now we have just collected environmental data, but then it could be the social part of gender equality, salary is everything that can be involved have fun. And, and that’s it’s, it’s, it’s what I see. The next, the next stage of us as a very powerful platform to connect, or integrate many, many solutions as well. Yeah,

Michael Waitze 26:29
man, I think if you build the right kind of platform, there’s no end to what you can plug into it. And, you know, if you can build an if you can build a platform that contains an edtech, that contains an inshore tech, and that also contains a bigger FinTech and a maintenance tech, now you’re building a business that is potentially gigantic, it seems to me No.

Pablo Riveros 26:48
Well, let’s see, maybe I hope we can have a podcast in the next five years. Let’s see how if it was to grow?

Michael Waitze 26:56
Well, let’s hope it’s sooner than five years, what I really like to do for the companies that come on the show is I like to come back in six to nine months just to see, right, because, like you said, if you’re building a bootstrap company, at some level, you have to create your own income, and then you’ve got to feed, you’ve got to feed yourself off of that income and grow off of that. And at some point, if you bootstrap long enough, you may not need to raise external capital, which in my, which, in my mind, is the best way to build a business because then you don’t remember you said this at the beginning. I didn’t want to work for anybody that I think people forget this. But when you raise venture capital money, you’re now working for somebody again.

Pablo Riveros 27:33
Absolutely. And I think there’s a new trend, I guess, in 2023, and there are many, we are very grateful, I think I have so many friends, founders, they already have VCs and right and invest investment, large investment. But we know that we took longer as a small team and Bootstrap. But at the same time, the independency decision decision makers, I’m the person, the sole founder, 100% on my company, and I don’t want to feel that I get a new board of my teams and and then they kick me out of like, what’s happening with the largest tech companies nowadays. So it’s a very risky as well, but but we I’m really glad I met met some very valued people in this journey. And I believe that VCs are very valuable for

Michael Waitze 28:26
I guess I look at it as kind of like getting married, you should not get married when you’re 22. Maybe 40 is probably the right age, right? Because now you’ve lived all this stuff. You’ve built something internally about yourself. And I look at venture capitals the same way. Let them be there to accelerate your growth. You’ve already figured it out. You’re now growing. And now I need to like superpower or power up my business. I’ll take your 10 million bucks to do that. But I don’t need your 400 grand today. To get to that point. I think it’s the way that I look at it. Right? It’s just like, Absolutely, because it’s just as dangerous as well.

Pablo Riveros 28:58
Absolutely, yes.

Michael Waitze 29:01
There’s a theme here for you. Right. And I think that part of that theme and tell me where I’m wrong is that you’ve always been kind of creating this community around sustainability, whether it was on the beach with the kayaks and cleaning up the beach, and I mean this really seriously, or whether it was when you’re in Australia, and doing that digital nomad kind of community building, you’ve kind of figured out a way to say, I know how to get support for what I’m doing. And if I can build that support system around me, I can kind of build almost anything. Right? But you’ve kind of made this decision to go down the ESG and sustainability route, which you know, thankfully, is a great, it’s a great pathway to be on. What else do you do that you want to talk about the founder Institute in Korea, because I think this is just another way of giving back as well and supporting other people while you have people supporting you. Can you talk about that a little bit too? Yeah, yeah. Well,

Pablo Riveros 29:52
September, September this year, I was invited to be a part of a founder Institute and I just support it. Got a few international startups, basically all from Korea to expand their businesses in, in Japan. And not only that I also part of the in, in a PA BiPAP. NIPER is a national organization in Korea as well. So I’m a senior advisor, they’re super cool the Korean government as well. And that’s kind of organised session that I also like, I support and that provides some intrapreneur, because I’m founder in Japan. So I know that what is the intrapreneurial journey, I can briefly discuss with them, my journey, my own experience, and also why I moved to Japan and my, how I can help them. It’s part of the collaboration and the back did eight years ago, when I started building my communities, is all about giving back to society, this is a very important things is how we can share the same vision that I have with my community. And we can grow with other companies and other startups, because it’s really painful when you see others, like myself, go to a new country and experience language barrier, the raw cracy of many systems. But when when you have a community, we can all help each other. And it’s really, really good. So

Michael Waitze 31:12
I like to say that going to a new country, right? Everything looks super opaque when you get there. Like why is it set up this way? This makes no sense. And I think every country is the same way. Look, you said you were in the Netherlands, you’re in Australia, you’re in Japan, in Korea, and all of those systems are different at scale. And on day one, when you walk into the first one, you get to Australia and maybe your first time outside of Chile. And you say like what is going on here. And then you slowly figure it out. And I think what happens and again, tell me if you think I’m right here is that then the next time you go into a new place, you’re like, Okay, this place is also upside down. But it has rules, and it has a system and it has organization. Now I just need to figure out this new system. Is that fair?

Pablo Riveros 31:56
Yes, I think at this part of our micelle has a digital technology Max and I decided to take to this pathway my life in my 20s. But now I’m living in Japan now. No travel in any water cut, my wife here have to be here. And I believe that, yeah, the complexity of any ecosystems. It’s also part of how government and internal government policies and, and the public sector and universities and so on have kind of go together against this. This is a key very fundamental, and I couldn’t I couldn’t do things. For example, here if I don’t, if I didn’t know that there isn’t a global glottal stops and where I can support and provide easy access to any government support from startups.

Speaker 1 32:51
Look, I love what you’re building. It was so awesome to have this conversation with you. Pablo Riveros, the founder of Manabu.dev and just so much more. You have to promise me that as you continue to grow, you’ll come back on the show. It doesn’t even have to be a specific set time. You’re welcome to come back. Anytime you want to update if big things change. I’ve just been waiting for you to come back on the show. I really appreciate you doing this today. Thank you so much.

Pablo Riveros 33:15
Thanks so much Michael. I really appreciate the opportunity to see you similar to you and updated the phone as well. Hopefully next time in person. Absolutely. Absolutely. Let’s do it. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you very much.


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